FCG · Our case
Source Conflicts Register — Where Public-Authority Replies and the Wiki Disagree
Mandatory dated-status rule — as at 10-10-2026: Any statement that a record was not found, is not held, or that an institution was not involved must be read as a source- and search-limited assessment, not proof of universal non-existence or non-involvement. Distinguish the authority’s response date from the Wiki’s current assessment date; attribute negative findings to the named source and identify the scope of the material reviewed. Update the as-at date when the evidence changes. Do not convert an unresolved discrepancy into a finding of wrongdoing.
Names are not listed as conflicts. The farm went by several names and functions; those are handled by the Nomenclature & Identity Map and its alias pages. A name appears below only where a body’s search or record was mis-assigned because of it (SC-07).
How the two parcels frame the conflicts
FAMILY CASE — contention, not a finding. Parcel A means the full 1877 house/quarrying estate: farmhouse/buildings, barn, stable and yard west of the house, garden, forest north of the house, and the ground south-east of the house/garden later registered as VG41. Parcel B is the separate eastern agricultural fields. The family’s established title case is that the 1877 arrangement took effect in 1928 and Parcel A passed to the Williams family; Mary’s later practical defence of the occupied house/buildings/garden group did not limit the full estate she claimed. The 1939 WGR–John Williams agreement/plan is already obtained and depicts Parcel B only. [SOURCE PENDING] The 1949 effort to characterise Mary’s Parcel-A occupation as permissive failed (no written record of the 2 February 1949 re-grant; GHF-E122). Mary (Nancy) Williams’s c.1974 witness statement (Mary (Nancy) Williams testimony) records that the title papers disappeared in 1950–52. [SOURCE PENDING] WGR’s 4 July 1955 enforcement of Parcel B also seized Parcel-A north forest and south-east green under “whole farm” wording (writ and execution record sought: GHF-E126). Whether later actors knowingly promoted that conflation is a separate evidential question; it must not be inferred from the physical event or missing title papers alone. (A-058; 1877 Agreement — papers taken). 🕒
Most conflicts below come from one pattern: a body describes “the farm” as a single holding, or dates an event from that single-holding description, where the documents show two parcels and two registered titles until the amalgamation of 2 February 1987. The entries record what each body said; they do not, by themselves, decide what the documents show.
Register
Type key: DATE (events dated differently), PARCEL (event assigned to the wrong parcel or to “the farm”), CUSTODY (bodies disagree on who holds a record), EXISTENCE (a body reports nothing held where other evidence shows an event), NAME (record filed under a similar name).
| ID and type | What the Wiki says | What the reply or replies say | Status and next test |
|---|---|---|---|
| SC-01 DATE, PARCEL Registration and merger |
The Two Parcels table (row 1982–1983) says WA231076 registered both parcels “as one”; the front-page timeline shows a “1983 Merger”; the first-registration note on Land Registry Titles says the 1982/83 registration merged both parcels into one estate. | HM Land Registry’s registration history of 23 March 2026 (GHF-E026-11), as read in the family’s correction to HMLR of 27 September 2026: two separate titles, WA231076 (applied for 30 November 1982) and WA240304 (23 February 1983, registered on the 1975 conveyance, the farmhouse-and-garden title), both still live at the judgment of 24 July 1986; amalgamation applied for on 2 February 1987 and WA240304 closed. A third version came from an HMLR support agent on 21 September 2026, who said the title was “closed in 2005” (A-071). | Wiki to correct. 1982–83 is first registration of two titles; the merger is the 1987 amalgamation, made while the appeal was open (scrutiny page). The evidence paragraph on Land Registry Titles and the Forensic Master Chronology already carry the corrected sequence. Test: WA231076 items 14 and 17 (Form A13) and the WA240304 file. |
| SC-02 DATE The “5 December 1988” Cadw decision |
The front-page summary says Cadw decided “the day before” the demolition not to list the house; the Forensic Master Chronology (item 12) and A-040 refer to a recorded 5 December decision. The only located source for a 5 December Cadw statement is the Western Mail of 6 December 1988 (N10). | Cadw, ATISN 27021, 11 June 2026 (R37): the house was visited and assessed and did not meet the listing criteria; the only record held is two photographs dated 29 July 1988; the search covered 1970–1999. Cadw’s email of 21 May 2026 (R42): assessed and rejected in the 1988 community survey; no record of an inspectors’ visit in December 1988. The Wales Office reply of 22 September 2026 (R16) uses “the refusal decision of 5 December 1988” only when quoting the family’s own request. 🕒 | Open. Until a Cadw document dates it, treat 5 December as the date of a press-reported statement, not a recorded Cadw decision. Test: ATISN 27589 items 1–2, response due 26 October 2026 (R04). Related: A-039. |
| SC-03 CUSTODY Where the 1980s listing files went |
A-037 and the Missing Records Register treat the Cadw assessment file as missing. 🕒 | Cadw (11 June 2026): other records were transferred to RCAHMW or destroyed under the Public Records Act 1958. RCAHMW (29 September, R01): no letters or records on the site in its registered files; only the NMR archive on Coflein. Wales Office (22 September, R16): paper files went to the National Assembly for Wales in 1999 and to the Welsh Government in 2007, and the Welsh Government is the place to ask. Welsh Government (Cadw): not held. Each body points to another. 🕒 | Open — a conflict between public bodies, not between a body and the Wiki. Test: ATISN 27589 item 3 (transfer or destruction schedule); Wales Office internal review IR/26/16 (R03). |
| SC-04 EXISTENCE Police at the 1988 evictions |
Press reports say about 15 police were at the 29 April 1988 stand-off and that South Wales Police said officers were there to prevent a breach of the peace (N07); a dozen police were on the farm on 30 April; William was charged after the November eviction and a summons was withdrawn in January 1989 (N12, N15). See 1988: Possession and Demolition. | South Wales Police FOI 719/26, 16 July 2026 (R38): no information held on police attendance at, or support for bailiffs at, the property, 1900–1993. Internal review 1188/26 acknowledged 29 September. FOI 1040/26 (R39): no information held on the named individuals. 🕒 | Open. A nil return is not evidence that the events did not happen; routine destruction under retention rules is one possible explanation. Test: outcome of internal review 1188/26; the force’s retention and destruction schedule for 1988–89 incident and custody records. 🕒 |
| SC-05 EXISTENCE January 1989 court hearing |
The 1988 page records, from the press, that a threatening-behaviour summons was withdrawn in January 1989 as out of time (N12) and that pleas and release followed on 23–24 March 1989 (N15). The Wiki’s summary does not name the court. | Ministry of Justice, FOIA 260805002, 12 August 2026 (R26): no information held on a Barry Magistrates’ Court hearing of January 1989. 🕒 | Open. Confirm which court sat in January 1989 before treating this as a conflict rather than a different court. |
| SC-06 DATE, PLACE, CUSTODY The reported “armour” find |
Archaeology and Heritage (c.1880 / 1858 section) says the HER record GGAT02038s contains a December 1988 note by R. F. Suggett recording a report of armour under the rear wing c.1880, possibly the ironwork then held at the National Museum. | RCAHMW (29 September, R01): Suggett’s report (archive 6048945) does not mention the find, and the HER text it quotes in full says only that finds of medieval ironwork and pottery have been reported. Two other RCAHMW records do mention an armour find, placing it under the dining-room floor about 1870 (NMR 6048942; Daily Telegraph, 16 April 1974, NMR 6048944). The “rear wing, c.1880, held by the National Museum” wording is in GGAT’s 1990 assessment and Holbrook and Thomas (2005), as quoted in the family’s request to Amgueddfa Cymru of 8 September 2026. Amgueddfa Cymru (R33): no 1875–1915 register entry for any such find. 🕒 | Re-check. Date (c.1870 or c.1880), place (dining room or rear wing) and custody (National Museum or none) all differ between sources. Check the HER page itself before relying on the Wiki’s attribution to a Suggett note; the earliest located source of the rear-wing wording is GGAT 1990, citing “RCAHMW 1988”. The Wiki already declines to state that armour was found. |
| SC-07 NAME Records filed under a similar name |
The same-name box on The Two Parcels treats Llandough Farm (south of the church), Llandough-juxta-Cowbridge and Great House, Llandow as different places; MS 3360/3 and Ref 13.2 are unassigned. | Amgueddfa Cymru (R33) reports a 1979 waterwheel from “Llandough Farm”, donated by Wales and West Housing Association in connection with development of the site, and the 1924 Llandough Estate sale particulars (MS 3360/3), as records for “Great House Farm / Ty Mawr / Llandough Farm”. RCAHMW (R01): archive records 6364275 and 6364276 relate to Ty Mawr, Tresimwn and 33 Whitecross Street, Monmouth, not Llandough. | Handled by nomenclature, not a narrative conflict. A record stays unassigned until parish, plan, acreage or tenant ties it to Llandough-juxta-Penarth (Name & Location Variations). |
Cross-check of every reply in the family’s mailbox — 6–7 October 2026
Review dated 6 October 2026. The family’s available email replies from Cadw/Welsh Government, the Wales Office, Senedd, Heneb, RCAHMW, Amgueddfa Cymru, National Library of Wales, Glamorgan Archives, The National Archives, HM Land Registry, Ministry of Justice/HMCTS, CPS, South Wales Police/NPCC, Vale of Glamorgan Council, Llandough Community Council, Dŵr Cymru and the MP’s office were compared with the existing record. SC-08–SC-44 list discrepancies not already in SC-01–SC-07. Two entries based on WhatDoTheyKnow remain marked for checking. A single source does not settle a disputed assertion.
| ID and type | What the Wiki says | What the reply or replies say | Status and next test |
|---|---|---|---|
| SC-08 FRAMING What kind of assessment Cadw made in 1988 |
The Wiki describes a December 1988 emergency “spot-listing” refusal reached in about 48 hours (Cadw Forensic Critique; A-037 “missing spot-listing file”; M-018). 🕒 | Cadw, 21 May 2026 (R42): the farmhouse and barn “were assessed and rejected for listing in the 1988 community survey of Llandough”. 10 July 2026: the photographs of 29 July 1988 “would have been taken as part of the listing assessment”. No Cadw reply mentions a separate December spot-listing process; on 4 September 2026 Cadw declined to “speculate on the events around the listing assessment”. | Open — Cadw to answer. The press of 3–6 December 1988 reports a fresh December consideration; Cadw’s own record describes only the July community survey. Whether the July assessment was reopened in December is the question put in ATISN 27589 (due 26 October 2026). See SC-02. |
| SC-09 CUSTODY Cadw’s four accounts of where its 1988 papers went |
Records Access Chronology and Missing Records Register (M-052) record the Wales Office route; the Cadw Critique tracks Cadw’s accounts from 21 May only. 🕒 | Cadw, 25 February 2026: any advice or correspondence “should be preserved” in the RCAHMW National Monuments Record. 11 June: “either transferred to the Royal Commission … or destroyed under the Public Record Act 1958”. 29 July: “no record of any transfer lists, accession records, archive schedules or other documentation”. 27 August: records of unsuccessful listings were “only retained for a short period, usually about 3 years”. Wales Office, 22 September: Welsh Office paper files “would have been transferred to the National Assembly for Wales in 1999, and subsequently to the Welsh Government in 2007”. 🕒 | Open — conflict between public bodies. Papers destroyed after about three years (c.1991) could not also have passed to the Assembly in 1999 and the Welsh Government in 2007. Adds to SC-03. |
| SC-10 EXISTENCE “Listed” / “county treasure” |
1988: Possession and Demolition says GGAT’s 1989 planning report describes the farmhouse “as having been listed as a ‘county treasure’”. A-054 says the source of the “listed” description is still to be identified. | Cadw, 25 February 2026: “there are no designated historic assets relevant to this topic”. 11 June 2026: the house “did not meet the listing criteria”. 🕒 | Wiki to reconcile. Cadw states the house was not listed (Cof Cymru search); the “county treasure” description comes from the 1989 report. Page 27 and A-054 should cite the same source and wording. |
| SC-11 NAME Which HER number is the site record |
Archaeology and Heritage gives GGAT02038s as the site record and says different numbers are different record types; GGAT03586s is not in its table. | Cadw, 25 February 2026: “Great House Farm HER site entry — GGAT03586s”. Cadw, 21 May 2026: “this Historic Environment Record (GGAT02038s)”. | Open — Heneb to answer in the HER complaint (R07). Already raised at A-050 and in the Cadw Critique (Part XI); page 29’s table should list GGAT03586s. |
| SC-12 EXISTENCE Was the promised Welsh Office file search ever reported? |
The Cadw Critique states as established that the paper-file search promised on 21 May 2026 “has never been reported back”. | Cadw, 11 June 2026 (R37): “Following a search of our paper and electronic records, apart from the two photographs, … the information you require is not held”. 10 July: “the searches included all 8 categories”. Neither letter names the Welsh Office files as a series searched. 🕒 | Open. The dispute is whether the 11 June letter is the report of that search. The family asked Cadw to say so on 22 September 2026. |
| SC-13 DATE Start of the Welsh Government complaint investigation |
Where Things Stand: Cadw stage-one complaint — “Investigation commenced 29 Sep 2026”. | Welsh Government Complaints advice team, 30 September 2026: correspondence received; concerns “will be addressed by the relevant officials … who will respond to you directly”; the policy does not cover decisions without maladministration. 29 September is the date Heneb appointed its investigating officer (R07). | Wiki to check. Unless a Cadw confirmation exists outside Gmail, record the Welsh Government date as “received 30 September; referred to officials”. |
| SC-14 EXISTENCE RCAHMW: “no correspondence” then a lost correspondence file |
GHF-E106-R01 and the Missing Records Register record the Johns–Buckler correspondence as “lost from the file since 1986/87”. 🕒 | RCAHMW, 28 May 2026: “we do not hold any correspondence related to the site”. 10 June 2026: archive 6048945 carries a note that “Correspondence between C.N. Johns and Mrs Buckler, Great House Farm, has been lost since 1986/87”. 29 September: its registered files are the only campaign records it keeps long term. | Record both replies. The first answer did not mention the Commission’s own note of a lost file. Quote RCAHMW’s wording (“has been lost since 1986/87”) rather than the paraphrase. |
| SC-15 DATE When the farm buildings came down |
GGAT Forensic Review and page 27: outbuildings demolished 30 November 1988, farmhouse 6 December 1988. | RCAHMW, 10 June 2026, quoting archive 6048945: “The house and farm buildings were suddenly and completely destroyed by B. P. Properties Ltd. on 6th December 1988”. The HER text quoted on 29 September says “demolished” on the same date. | Open. RCAHMW’s record (one source, repeated in the HER) puts all the buildings on 6 December; the family’s and the press’s chronology separates the outbuildings (30 November). Note the difference wherever 6 December is cited for “the farm”. |
| SC-16 FRAMING The survey officer’s visit after the demolition |
R01 and page 1100: an “unexplained” post-demolition visit by a survey officer. | RCAHMW, 29 September 2026: Richard Suggett visited briefly after the demolition in December 1988; the reason is not recorded. The HER text it quotes says “Examination of the rubble brought to light no new features except an ogee-stopped beam with torus”. | Wiki to clarify. The reason is unrecorded. The HER text describes an examination of the rubble but does not date it or say who made it. |
| SC-17 NAME Church Farm: same place or a different one? |
GHF-E106-R33 now treats Church Farm as an alias of Great House Farm / Tŷ Mawr; the Nomenclature & Identity Map places it in the farmhouse name cluster; page 29 says where Church Farm stood “is still to be established”. | Amgueddfa Cymru, 25 August, 22 September and 5 October 2026: records “at Great House Farm and Church Farm, both at Llandough”; Church Farm answered as a separate question (accession 63.24). | Open. The Museum indexes the two as separate places; the Wiki’s alias reading rests on HER placement and place-name evidence. Pages 29 and 1252 should agree. |
| SC-18 ATTRIBUTION What the Museum thinks of the 1858 Church Farm finds |
Page 29 quotes the Museum: “It is stated that these objects were found at Church Farm, Llandough, in 1858” and says the Museum considered they “could well be the basis” of the local story. Page 1235 attributes that view to the reply of 22 September 2026. | Amgueddfa Cymru, 22 September 2026: “the provision of these records should not be taken as indicating any association between them and the discovery you have described”. 28 September: no recorded information explaining why staff concluded the records were unrelated. Neither sentence quoted on page 29 appears in any Museum email body in the family’s mailbox. | Re-check. The quoted wording may come from an attachment not yet retrieved (R17). Until it is located, cite the Museum’s formal disclaimer alongside it. |
| SC-19 NAME Records the Museum returned for “Great House Farm” |
The FOI register’s inferred labels treat MS 3360/3 (1924 particulars) as most likely the Cowbridge Great House Farm, and accession 82.44H as the Roman villa site, not Great House Farm. | Amgueddfa Cymru, 5 October 2026: records for other Llandoughs and “other properties bearing the name ‘Great House Farm’ were reviewed but were not considered to relate to the location specified” — yet MS 3360/3 was returned. 22 September: 82.44H material was disclosed among records “at Great House Farm and Church Farm, both at Llandough”. | Open. The Museum says it excluded other Great House Farms; the Wiki doubts its attribution. Settle by parish, vendor, acreage and plan when the 1924 page is retrieved. Extends SC-07. |
| SC-20 EXISTENCE, NAME The 1877 lease to John Williams quoted in Mary (Nancy) Williams’s statement |
Mary (Nancy) Williams’s Statement quotes an 1877 lease to John Williams of the Llandough land. That matching Llandough instrument has not been found. On 18 October 2026 the Wiki corrected its former descriptions of a “6 November 1877 counterpart lease” as if that document were held by Glamorgan Archives; GHF-E116 now labels this a reported but unlocated lead. The family’s line of enquiry remains that the Llandough lease may survive under a different or mistaken catalogue description, so the original documents and property descriptions must be physically checked. The known DBDT/79/1 instrument is not that lease: see the next cell. 🕒 | Glamorgan Archives, physical examination of DBDT/79/1, 14 September 2026 (ref 2026/3893): “The catalogue description for DBDT/79/1 had a few small errors which have now been corrected.” The original is “a counterpart lease dated 2 May 1877 between the Trustees of the Will of the late Marquess of Bute and Mr John Williams of Newport” (catalogued until then as from “the Marquess of Bute”), for land in Pembroke Terrace, parish of St John the Baptist, Cardiff, with “no mention of Llandough, Great House Farm or Ty Mawr”. 24 September 2026 (ref 2026/4097): DBDT/18/1 (November 1877, Clyde Street, Roath) and DBDT/1/3 (July 1877, Adamsdown Square), both to “Mr John Williams”, given from the catalogue only. No Archives email states whether John Williams of Newport is or is not the John Williams of Great House Farm. | Missing evidence — open. Established on two sources: none. What is documented: one catalogue entry (DBDT/79/1) was wrong about the grantor until a physical check, so catalogue descriptions of the other 1877 leases (DBDT/18/1, DBDT/1/3) are single-source until their originals are examined. Not established either way: whether John Williams “of Newport” is the family’s John Williams; no evidence has been given that he is a different man. The 1877 Llandough lease in Mary’s statement is a missing record, not a disproved one. Tests: physical examination of DBDT/18/1 and DBDT/1/3; Newport and Llandough census, rate and directory entries for John Williams, 1871–1881; the Bute rentals for Llandough, 1877–78. 🕒 |
| SC-21 CUSTODY / SOURCE IDENTITY Where the Wiki’s D153/4–8 reference is held and what it proves |
The former Bute Estate page incorrectly attributed the Wiki’s D153/4–8 target span to Glamorgan Archives and treated it as a limeworks record. That repository attribution has been corrected on 18 October 2026. The description “1876 limeworks severance” and the precise target span have not yet been checked against the original catalogue item. | Glamorgan Archives, 24 September 2026 (item 12): “Not held – this is a National Library of Wales reference”. NLW, 19 June 2026: the reference in the Bute Estate Collection is D153/1–8. The NLW title-deeds list further describes D153/1–8 as deeds relating to premises in Llandough, including a dwelling house adjoining the churchyard, 1811 (D153/1–2), and dates the parent series 1811–1912. This confirms parish-level relevance, not that the uninspected subitems D153/4–8 prove a 33-acre limeworks event or identify Great House Farm. See NLW title-deeds list. 🕒 | Repository correction made on 18 October 2026; land identity still open. The Wiki now directs the search to the NLW Bute Estate Collection. Its parent catalogue description establishes that D153/1–8 concerns premises in Llandough, but the individual D153/4–8 contents, alleged 33-acre extent, event dates, boundary plan, owner and relationship to Great House Farm remain uninspected. “Limeworks severance” is a Wiki research label, not a verified catalogue title. Parcel A/B and Williams-family identity assignments remain open. |
| SC-22 CUSTODY Which local authority covered Llandough |
Records Access Chronology: “Llandough came under Cardiff Rural District Council, 1875–1974.” | Glamorgan Archives, 24 September 2026 (item 16): “The area was not covered by Cardiff Rural District Council but rather Penarth Urban District Council.” Llandough Community Council, 14 June 2026: before 1982 Llandough was within Penarth Town Council; its own minutes begin in 1982. Vale of Glamorgan Council names its predecessors as the Vale of Glamorgan Borough Council and South Glamorgan County Council. | Wiki to correct — two sources agree (Glamorgan Archives and Llandough Community Council both point to Penarth, not Cardiff RDC). This changes where the 1970 village-green, 1972 and 1974 planning records should be sought: Penarth UDC series (UDPE), not Cardiff RDC. |
| SC-23 EXISTENCE The 1877 Daniel Thomas deed |
Page 19 describes the 1877 sale of the farmhouse, buildings and about 10 acres to Daniel Thomas, and a library copy of the Bute–Thomas deed reported missing from Cardiff Library in the year of BP’s writ. 🕒 | Glamorgan Archives, 7 and 30 September 2026: “we do not appear to hold any deeds relating to this transaction”; no Thomas–Bute deeds in its catalogue; DBDT/10/19 describes Daniel Thomas as “of the Town of Cardiff, Builder”. 24 September: no records withdrawn from its collections, 1950–1989, that bear on the farm. 🕒 | Open. The Archives’ answer concerns its own holdings; the reported loss concerned Cardiff Library, whose Bute collection is due to transfer to the Archives. Test: the Cardiff Library Bute finding aid. |
| SC-24 CUSTODY Who holds the Bute and WGR papers |
Missing Records Register (M-010, M-012, M-013, M-044, M-045) lists Glamorgan Archives as the likely holder of the 1876–78 instruments, the 1938 Bute→WGR conveyance and DBDT123/7 (1939 WGR / John Williams plan). 🕒 | Glamorgan Archives, 7 September 2026: it does not hold the majority of the Bute Estate records; the rest are at Cardiff Library (pending transfer) and the NLW. 24 September: its only WGR / BP-related papers are D696 (WGR plans and rentals, c.1938–44). The National Archives, 3 March 2026: the Bute archives for Glamorgan are at the NLW and Glamorgan Archives. | Open. Re-point the targets to D696, the Cardiff Library Bute collection and the NLW. Page 16 also says the family holds the 1938 deed, which conflicts with M-012/M-044 listing it as outstanding. |
| SC-25 NAME Is the NLW’s “Ty Mawr” this Great House? |
Cydfin / Tŷ Mawr page calls the D219 leases of “Cydfin Farm or Ty Mawr Farm” the strongest new lead; the identity map puts Cydfin in the farmhouse name cluster. | NLW, 19 June 2026: Ty Mawr “could be translated to Large House or Great House, but this is only speculation”; D219 describes a holding of 107 acres, 1552–1824. | Open. Page 1103 already says the deeds must be inspected first; the identity map should carry the same caution and the 107-acre difference. |
| SC-26 NAME Which manor of Llandough |
Page 1103 excludes the Penrice and Margam “Llandough and St Mary Church” records as the Cowbridge Llandough. | The National Archives (Head of Collections), 24 February – 3 March 2026: the Penrice and Margam Estate Records are “particularly relevant … as it includes the surviving manorial records for Llandough”, pointing to court book D/D B M/3 (1884–1937) at Glamorgan Archives. | Open. TNA’s pointer and the Wiki’s exclusion rule disagree; check D/D B M/3 for Llandough-juxta-Penarth entries before excluding it. |
| SC-27 PARCEL What Bute sold to WGR in 1938 |
Pages 16 and 1252: in 1938 Bute conveyed its reversion (on the 1916 tenancy) of Parcel B to Western Ground Rents. | The National Archives, 3 March 2026: the Bute interests culminated in “sale of the estate’s leasehold interest to the Western Ground Rents Company in 1938”, which “led to the widespread dispersal and possibly destruction of the Bute estate records”. | Open — possible. TNA’s description is general, not a reading of the deed. Its remark that the 1938 sale may have led to destruction of Bute records bears on the missing-records pages. 🕒 |
| SC-28 FRAMING Was this only a “private” dispute? |
The Wiki’s public-authority pages (776, 778, 775) treat the Welsh Office, Cadw, the courts, HMLR and the Council as parts of the 1980s events, with missing records. 🕒 | The National Archives, 23 September 2026: “The crux of your query is local land ownership dispute … and the demolition of some buildings by a private company … there would have been no records to transfer. The exception is the court case.” Vale of Glamorgan Council, 2 June 2026: neither it nor its predecessors “were involved in the case of BP Properties Ltd v Buckler … it appears this was a private legal matter”. 🕒 | Conflict recorded. The record shows public bodies acting in the matter (registration during the appeal, the listing decision, planning, policing). These bodies frame it as private. Both framings should be quoted on the public-authority pages. |
| SC-29 EXISTENCE The 1971 abstract of title |
Land Registry Titles: HMLR says a 1971 abstract was lodged but it is not on the schedule. The Forensic Master Chronology says later instruments “recite” the 1971 abstract. | HMLR stage-one decision, 19 April 2026: an abstract of title dated 1971 “was lodged with the application for first registration”. HMLR schedule, 30 July 2026: 43 documents, none of them a 1971 abstract; “all these documents are held on file”. | Open — HMLR to explain. HMLR’s two letters disagree. The Chronology’s “recite” wording should follow HMLR’s (lodged / seen), not recited. |
| SC-30 DATE Which form carried the “no question or doubt” certificate |
Page 26 states that on Forms 1E (1982) and 1C (1983) the solicitors certified they knew of no question or doubt affecting the title. | HMLR stage-one decision, 19 April 2026, quotes the certificate as from “Form FR1”, a form introduced after 2003. The 30 July schedule lists Form 1E (30 November 1982) and Form 1C (1983). | Open. It is not yet shown that the wording HMLR quoted is the wording given in 1982–83. Ask HMLR for the certificate on Forms 1E and 1C themselves. |
| SC-31 FRAMING “Mrs Buckler” in the proceedings |
Pages 25 and 26 record HMLR’s stage-two conclusion only; the family’s complaint called the description of “Mrs Buckler” a misdescription. | HMLR stage-two decision, 25 May 2026: on marriage “the woman takes on the husband’s name”; “It is the identity of the person that matters not which name is used”. | Family position recorded. HMLR’s stated reasoning should appear beside the family’s objection on page 26. |
| SC-32 DATE, PARCEL The 15 May 1924 record and Mary’s 1928 |
Pages 26, 514 and the Forensic Master Chronology read the 15 May 1924 entry as a Bute–Corbett drain agreement. Page 25 still calls it a candidate for the 1928 Williams freehold split; the FOI register’s inferred label links it to the 1924 sale particulars. | HMLR schedule, 30 July 2026: WA231076 item 2, “Agreement dated 15 May 1924”, parties not given. HMLR has said nothing connecting it to 1928. | Wiki to make consistent. HM Land Registry holds a 1924 record (not shown to be a conveyance); Mary recalls 1928. Whether they are connected is unresolved and should be stated the same way on every page. 🕒 |
| SC-33 EXISTENCE Probate records for Mary (Nancy) Williams |
Courts, Archives & Public Authorities and page 106: the MoJ probate request is “blocked” pending a death certificate. | MoJ Disclosure Team, 30 September 2026: “As you are requesting probate records, please use following link for access to Probate records from the Probate Registry”. | Wiki to update. The MoJ has redirected the request to the Probate Registry rather than holding it open. |
| SC-34 EXISTENCE, CUSTODY Were the court files destroyed? |
The FOI register records the SAR reply that files were destroyed under the retention schedule; the Records Access Chronology gives the House of Lords papers as a new priority. | HMCTS SAR 260803049, 3 September 2026: files destroyed under the record retention and disposition schedule. HMCTS FOI 260805002, 12 August: surviving records “would be held by Glamorgan Archives”. Cardiff Civil Justice Centre, 24 August: it does not know which historical retention schedule applied, and “No destruction register, destruction certificate, transfer schedule or equivalent administrative record … has been identified”. The National Archives, 23 September: House of Lords judicial papers for the case survive (HL/PO/JO/10/11/2536). | Open — conflict between public bodies. “Destroyed” is asserted without a destruction record, while papers from the same case survive at the House of Lords level. The Cardiff Civil Justice Centre replies of 4 and 24 August should be added to the FOI register. |
| SC-35 EXISTENCE Alun Michael’s 1988 approach to the Lord Chancellor |
Page 27 lists Alun Michael’s correspondence with the Lord Chancellor’s Department as “still not shown”. 🕒 | Ministry of Justice, FOI 250628005 (WhatDoTheyKnow request “BP vs Buckler 1987”), 17 July 2025: only the Court of Appeal judgment was found; 1988 correspondence “would have been destroyed” under retention schedules. Internal review requested 20 June 2026. (Wording to be checked against the public request page before citing.) | Wiki to log the reply on pages 27 and 106 and in the FOI register; await the internal review. |
| SC-36 EXISTENCE National police archives on the 1988 operation |
Pages 106 and 1097 treat the WhatDoTheyKnow request “BP vs Buckler 1987” (National Counter Terrorism Security Office) as producing only automated reminders. | National Police Chiefs’ Council, FOI 3156/2026, 16 September 2026: searches of ACPO archive listings “identified no references to Great House Farm, Llandough, BP Properties Ltd v Buckler, or the 1988 operation”; no information held on transfer, retention or disposal. Internal reviews 3157/2026 and 3176/2026 acknowledged. (Wording to be checked against the public request page.) 🕒 | Wiki to log the reply. Adds a national nil return to SC-04; press reports of police at the evictions stand. |
| SC-37 EXISTENCE Is the planning file complete? |
Redevelopment and Church View Close, A-048 and the Missing Records Register: appendices to the 1989 officer’s report and the County Engineer sheets are missing. The Wiki gives three different counts: two (M-003), three, C–E (page 106), four, B–E (pages 28, 599, 791). 🕒 | Vale of Glamorgan Council, EIR 00210772, 7 July 2026: the records, “including associated documentation, are publicly available via the Council’s Planning Register”; “no additional information has been identified”. | Open. The Council says the file is complete; the documents its own report refers to are not in it. The Wiki should settle on one count (the report lists B–E). |
| SC-38 EXISTENCE Earlier planning permissions on the site |
Page 28 and the Master Timeline record a housing permission of 25 July 1972 (from the 1989 officer’s report); page 31 quotes a 1974 report of permission for about 13 houses; village green VG41 (1970) is a Council record still to obtain. PL-011 (page 791) gives the 1972 file as “89/96/3337”. | Vale of Glamorgan Council Planning, 12 June 2026, and EIR 00210772, 7 July 2026: a search “from 1875 onwards” found two relevant applications only (1989 outline and 1992 reserved matters). | Open. Either the search missed the earlier permissions or they are filed under Penarth UDC (see SC-22). The “89/96/3337” reference should be checked. |
| SC-39 EXISTENCE “Nothing more” then “more found” |
A-055 records both statements; page 106 logs 11 September only as an apology. | Vale of Glamorgan Council, 7 July 2026: “no additional information has been identified”. 11 September 2026: “further historical documentation has been found … not necessarily Council documentation but … in the Council’s possession”. | Wiki to update page 106. Outcome of the internal review of 00210772 awaited. |
| SC-40 DATE, PARCEL Llandough Primary School land |
Research Leads: “1970 (UNRESOLVED). Llandough Primary School opened on land said to have formed part of the farm holding.” 🕒 | Vale of Glamorgan Council, FOI 00211027, 14 September 2026: conveyance of 11 June 1965 between Lakeside and Llandough Development Company Limited, Western Ground Rents Limited and Glamorgan County Council; £16,800; no gift or undervalue; no BP correspondence. | Wiki to cross-refer. The 1965 conveyance is documentary; the 1970 date on page 1031 has no cited source. Whether the school site was ever farm land is still open (R23). |
| SC-41 EXISTENCE Stephen Doughty MP’s “replies” of May 2026 |
Page 106 and the May 2026 Highlight Report: “29–31 May 2026 — Stephen Doughty MP — Replies to family correspondence”. Rows for 27 July and 18–19 September are labelled as from the MP although those rows contain the family’s own letters. | Office of Stephen Doughty MP, 5 August 2026: “we have searched our systems … we haven’t been able to find any of the messages you sent” on 29 and 31 May, 12 and 25 June and 13 July; only automatic replies were sent. On 18 September the office did forward HM Land Registry’s Chief Executive’s letter. | Wiki corrected. The May report and page 106 chronology should not describe the 29–31 May, 27 July or 18–19 September family correspondence as substantive replies from the MP. The 18 September forwarding action is recorded separately. |
| SC-42 FRAMING What the Monitoring Officer complaint was about |
Page 31 (card GHF-E031-08): “a complaint about the planning file and Community Council records”. | Vale of Glamorgan Council Monitoring Officer, 24 August 2026: “The substance of the complaint was that you had not received substantive responses to a number of emails”; 12 August: no breach of the Members’ Code of Conduct found. 🕒 | Wiki to align page 31 with page 106 (a ward councillor’s failure to respond). |
| SC-43 EXISTENCE National Library of Wales FOI response documents |
FOI register R14 and R31: no attachment in the mailbox; “FOI2026-11-Response.pdf … could not be found in any email”. R14 omits the 20 July response. | NLW, 20 July 2026 (FOI/2026/09, “FOI2026-09.pdf”), 29 July 2026 (internal review, “FOI2026-09-Internal_Review_Outcome.pdf”) and 29 July 2026 (FOI/2026/11, “FOI2026-11-Response.pdf”): each response is delivered as a LibAnswers download link in the email. | Wiki to correct and retrieve. The documents exist as links, not MIME attachments. The family’s summary says the review searched D153, D205 and D219; R14 lists only D153 and D205. |
| SC-44 ORIGIN, PARCEL How did Ideal Homes acquire the woodland? |
Woodland records, as SOURCE PENDING, that the woodland half of Parcel A was taken in 1955 and passed to a Llandough couple, who gifted it to the charity. That has not yet been supported by a documentary transfer. | Forest of Cardiff, letter 25 September 2026: it says it bought the woodland more than 30 years ago from Ideal Homes (now Persimmon Homes) after due diligence. | Open conflict. The question is when and from whom Ideal Homes acquired the woodland before the charity’s purchase. The decisive tests are the HMLR title register for the woodland and the Ideal Homes conveyance. The charity’s statement does not by itself establish the whole historic chain. |
SC-47 — DSA/6/1158: 1938 sale particulars not yet assigned to the Penarth site
TYPE: NAME / LOCATION / TRANSACTION IDENTITY. The 11 June 2026 Glamorgan Archives email, retrospectively catalogued at GHF-E106-R52, is reported to describe DSA/6/1158 as Stephenson & Alexander particulars dated 15 November 1938 for “Great House Farm, Llandough”; the supplied summary identifies D.J. Jenkins as owner and a sale for £5,500 to L.D. Thomas of Porthcawl.
Status: OPEN — identity unverified, not yet a demonstrated contradiction. The reference’s wording alone does not establish that the sale concerned Great House Farm / Tŷ Mawr at Llandough-juxta-Penarth. The Wiki already has same-name holdings that must remain distinct unless parish, plan, acreage or other identifiers connect them. The original particulars and plan have not been attached to R52 in this update.
Why it matters if the location is confirmed: the reported Jenkins/Thomas parties would need to be reconciled with the separate Bute-to-Western Ground Rents conveyance of the reversion on the 1916 tenancy in 1938. Do not combine the two transactions, or use DSA/6/1158 as proof of a title transfer, before examining the source.
Test: obtain and inspect the complete DSA/6/1158 particulars and plan; check parish, homestead location, acreage, plan boundaries, vendor and purchaser; compare any identified property parcels against the 1938 WGR conveyance and 1939 tenancy plan. If the particulars concern another Llandough, record the correct site and close the Penarth link.
Smaller recording errors found in the same check
- Page 106 says the 1990 GGAT report came with Cadw’s ATISN 27021 response of 11 June 2026; it came with Cadw’s email of 21 May 2026 (R42).
- Pages 106 and 1097 give Cadw’s “YYY” code only as “marginally below the bar” (21 May); on 10 July Cadw said it meant the building “did not met the criteria” (already at A-038).
- Page 19 (GHF-E019-13) dates Glamorgan Archives’ 2026/4097b response 8 September; that was when the family’s email arrived. The response is dated 30 September (R24 is right).
- Page 1235 cites Amgueddfa Cymru FOI 2026-024 for accessions 82.44H and 95.56H; the 2026-024 reply was a “not held” refusal. The accession material came under FOI 2026-032. 🕒
- Page 106 presents “Item 19 … B.P. Properties Limited (Respondents) v Buckler (A.P.) (Petitioner)” as part of TNA’s email; the email gives only YHL/PO/JO/10/11/2536. Item 19 comes from the catalogue and the CSV manifest.
- Page 26 lists April 1983 correspondence on WA240304 but omits the 12 May 1983 Linklaters/HMLR correspondence on WA231076 (schedule item 16), which the Forensic Master Chronology includes.
- The Senedd Culture Committee’s replies of 11 August, 12 August and 22 September 2026 (no remit; refers to the public body and then the Ombudsman) are not on page 106, though the FOI register says they are. Its 28 September email is a one-line note of the family’s date correction.
- Cadw’s ATISN 27589 acknowledgement repeats “possession was taken on 29 November 1988” from the family’s own request; page 27 marks possession as 29 or 30 November, unresolved. The family clarified on 1 October. 🕒
- The Programme Dashboard still lists the Vale 2020/01590/HYB control; the family withdrew the 133-house site from scope on 2 October 2026.
- HM Land Registry support said WA240304 “closed in 2005”; casework says it closed on the 1987 amalgamation (already at SC-01 and A-071).
Type key additions: FRAMING (a body describes the event or the case differently from the family’s narrative), ATTRIBUTION (a view is credited to a body that its own reply does not state).
SC-45 — MS 3360/3 now has positive location identifiers
TYPE: NAME / LOCATION. The 5 October Amgueddfa Cymru reply left MS 3360/3 location-unverified. The Museum’s follow-up of 7 October 2026 now records that “Great House” formed part of the 1924 Llandough Estate sale particulars, was occupied by W.G. Thomas & Sons, comprised approximately 202 acres, was situated in the Parish of Llanfair, and had its homestead in the Village of Llandough.
Status: Wiki corrected. These are positive identifiers and materially narrow the identity of the holding. They do not, by themselves, establish Llandough-juxta-Penarth or Llandough-juxta-Cowbridge because the Museum does not use either modern disambiguation in this reply and the underlying MS 3360/3 page/plan has not yet been independently examined. The Wiki should therefore quote the identifiers and keep the modern attribution open.
Separate point: Ref 13.2 remains catalogued only as “Waterwheel from Llandough Farm (opposite hospital)”. It is not thereby evidence of Great House Farm/Tŷ Mawr. The Museum also confirms that it does not hold a separate recorded audit schedule of item-by-item exclusions from the earlier search results; the next step is documentary reconstruction from the disclosed records, not asking the Museum to create such a schedule.
SC-46 — NPCC search methodology, recorded retrieval instructions and results
TYPE: SEARCH SCOPE / RECORDS CUSTODY / FRAMING.
What the earlier Wiki/register said: the NPCC FOI 3156/2026 response stated that no relevant information was identified in accessible NPCC/ACPO searches, and the record initially lacked the full search terms and retrieved lead responses.
What the three source letters now show: the 16 September FOI 3156/2026 response says no references to Great House Farm, Llandough, BP Properties Ltd v Buckler or the described 1988 operation were found in ACPO archive listings/catalogues available to the NPCC, and says no record is held of transfer, retention, disposal or current location. The 29 September reviews 3157/2026 and 3176/2026 uphold separate decisions. The 9 October FOI 3065/2026 response lists “Great House Farm” and “Llandough” as search terms; names NPCC shared drives, ChiefsNet, ACPO Archives, the Counter Terrorism Coordination Committee folder, and “Records of the Association of Chief Police Officers 1856–2005”; and identifies Crime Coordination Committee, Business Support, Counter Terrorism Coordination Committee and NaCTSO as consulted functions. It says no Q4–Q6 information is held, but supplies an actual retrieval email and says the results were captured by email and disclosed through earlier responses. 🕒
Assessment: the wording creates a legitimate clarification question about the boundary between formal search logs/consolidated results and recorded emails/instructions. It does not, by itself, prove an actual contradiction, that further records are held, deliberate concealment, destruction, or historic NPCC/NaCTSO operational involvement. The two-term list also does not itself demonstrate whether other search methods or terms were used.
Next test: reconcile all individual policing-lead responses with the earlier disclosures; inspect the full WhatDoTheyKnow incoming message and attachments; ask whether terms such as “Buckler”, “BP Properties”, the case citation and operational descriptions were used; identify the exact catalogue/reference for the “ACPO … 1856–2005” source; and pursue local-force/archive records separately. Do not ask the NPCC to invent a search log it says it does not hold.
Primary-source links: GHF-E106-R49 — NPCC FOI 3156/2026 · GHF-E106-R50 — reviews 3157/2026 and 3176/2026 · GHF-E106-R51 — FOI 3065/2026 search disclosure · Reply register R49 · R50 · R51 · WhatDoTheyKnow thread.
SC-48 — When the farm’s water was cut off: c.1948–58 or c.1988
TYPE: DATE / RESPONSIBLE PARTY.
Source A (1958 press): Western Mail, 20 Nov 1958, p.7 (snippet only): “Mrs. Buckler claimed that the water was cut off from her house and grounds for nearly 10 years by order of Western Ground Rents.” That puts the start at about 1948–49 (inference) and names the landlord (EV-0037).
Source B (wiki review and 2026 correspondence): the Dŵr Cymru review dates the reported cut-off to 1988 and says the date and the responsible party are not established. Dŵr Cymru’s 2026 replies to Sion Buckler refer to “the disconnection which you believe took place during the 1980s”.
Oral version: per Branwen Buckler (voice testimony), the water was cut off while it was a dairy farm and a council was named (testimony). She lived at the farm until 1988, so any 1950s detail may be second-hand.
Assessment: open. There may have been two cut-offs; no document yet shows that. Source A is a report of Mrs Buckler’s claim, not proof of who ordered it.
Next test: page image of the 1958 article; Penarth UDC and Cardiff Waterworks Committee minutes, 1948–58; whether the farm was on the public main or a Bute estate spring (EV-0236).
SC-49 — Year of the Williams–Buckler marriage: 1935 or 1936
TYPE: DATE.
Source A: per Sion Buckler (19 Oct 2026), Mary (Nancy) Williams married in 1935.
Source B: the wiki’s family pages give 1936, citing a marriage certificate that is still a placeholder (to be obtained from the General Register Office) (The Williams / Buckler Family). Western Mail, 5 Aug 1936, p.10, reports the wedding at Llandough Church of Mr. Fred Buckler of Barry and Miss Mary Doreen (Nancy) Williams of Great House Farm (EV-0230, snippet only; the ceremony date is not in the snippet).
Assessment: open; the 1936 press report favours 1936. Next test: GRO marriage index, 1935–36, or the certificate.
Keeping the register
See also: FOI & Public-Authority Reply Register · Anomalies Register · Missing Records Register · The Two Parcels · Land Registry Titles · Records Access Chronology 🕒
MOD FOI2026/09190 — entry added 10-10-2026
Evidence: GHF-E169 — MOD internal review dated 10 October 2026.
The MOD states that its searches across MOD archives and targeted searches in the Army Secretariat and Counterterrorism and United Kingdom branches did not locate information matching the request. Separately, it neither confirms nor denies whether it holds Special Forces-related information under FOIA 2000, section 23(5). The review acknowledges delay and concludes that timeliness requirements were not met, without clearly identifying in its concluding paragraph which stage caused that finding. It says personal-information elements were referred for a separate subject access process.
Interpretive control: this is a dated record of the MOD’s statement, not proof that relevant historical records never existed or that military personnel were or were not involved. Keep FOI2026/09190 distinct from FOI2026/09019 unless the MOD confirms a relationship. Do not mark the subject access strand complete until its reference and substantive outcome are recorded.
Cross-reference — Cedwyn / Cydfin place-name evidence: References on this page to variants such as Cedwyn, Cydfin, Cedfin, Cydwin or Tŷ Mawr should be read alongside the GHF-E173 complete reference index and, where relevant, the Llandough (Penarth) pre-1877 manorial evidence page. Name similarity is a research lead, not proof of identical location, boundaries, ownership or title.
Cedwyn Estate theory cross-reference: Use the Cedwyn Estate Working Theory as a cross-cutting hypothesis when evaluating conflicts between authority statements and the wiki’s evidence and testimony. A conflict may be important evidence of an incorrect description or missing record, but it is not automatically evidence of deliberate concealment. Identify the disputed proposition, source language, parcel and alternative explanations.
SC-20 addendum — do not conflate the two D 219 farm entries
The NLW series D 219 catalogue explicitly distinguishes “Cydfin Farm or Ty Mawr Farm” (107 acres; D219/1, 4–5, 8 et seq., 1552–1824) from “Llandough Farm” (166 acres; D219/9–13, 1824–1832). The 166-acre entry is not the Tŷ Mawr entry and must not be used to supply Great House Farm’s acreage. Source: official NLW D 219 description.
Keep the 1824 DB/E/1 plan 19 survey figure for “Cedfin or Ty Mawr Farm” separate as well: its current transcription gives 139a 3r 8p including woodland, with readings still provisional. These figures cannot be harmonised without comparing the deed boundaries, the survey schedule and the individual plans.
For the full dispositions of false matches, source duplication and contextual-only evidence, see the Kissed Frogs screening register. The 6 November 1877 Clyde Street deed is a Cardiff building lease; the reported Llandough instrument remains unlocated.
Page version & change log
Current version: 1.0.0
| Version | Date (UTC) | Editor (human or agent name) | Change | Source / evidence |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1.0.0 | 2026-10-18T15:27Z | Tab (for Sion Buckler) | Footer standardised; no content change | Editing Protocol, 18 Oct 2026 |
Agents and editors: follow the Editing Protocol.